General Discussion

Very important agents

Nick Nisi joins us to dig into the latest trends from this year and how they're impacting his day-to-day coding and Vision Pro wearing. Anthropic's acquisition of Bun, the evolving JavaScript and AI landscape, GitHub's challenges and the Amp/Sourcegraph split. We dive into AI development practice...

The Changelog · Dec 5, 2025

Featuring

Nick Nisi – Website, GitHub, Bluesky, Mastodon, X
Jerod Santo – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X
Adam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, X

Notes & Links

📝 Edit Notes

Chapters

1	00:00	Let's talk!	00:38
2	00:38	Sponsor: Tiger Data	01:40
3	02:17	Very Important Friends!	00:56
4	03:13	Weeping for the youth	00:49
5	04:02	Nick style	00:30
6	04:32	GoldenEye 007 (1997)	00:13
7	04:45	Nick is that Vision Pro guy	02:09
8	06:54	Date of Purchase, pls.	03:01
9	09:55	Bun is joining Anthropic	07:00
10	16:55	Nick goes to SquiggleConf	02:05
11	19:00	GitHub still exists?!	03:21
12	22:22	Is this a pod?	05:11
13	27:33	Sponsor: Namespace	01:42
14	29:15	Adam is surprised by Codeberg	07:54
15	37:09	Let's play with Sora!	06:15
16	43:23	Amp, Inc.	04:48
17	48:11	Do you have Skills?	08:15
18	56:26	Sponsor: Notion	01:32
19	57:58	Sponsor: NordLayer	01:31
20	59:29	AI browser wars!	08:46
21	1:08:15	Voice AI?	10:33
22	1:18:49	Zed is dead to Nick	01:06
23	1:19:55	The web still lives, but is it changing?	06:36
24	1:26:30	Let's meshtastic	00:37
25	1:27:07	Nick predicts the future?	04:44
26	1:31:51	Let's push pause (++ teaser!!)	04:14
27	1:36:05	++ teaser	02:12

Transcript

📝 Edit Transcript

Well, Vim was backwards. You can’t have that.

[unintelligible 00:02:34.25]

[laughs] You know, my daughter’s friend apparently was telling her class that my license plate stands for Very Important Man… Which I felt super-embarrassed about. [laughter]

How lame would that be if that was actually what you… “My dad’s a very important man, and he thinks he is, therefore he got himself a license plate that tells you that.”

Oh, that would be the worst.

Well, that’s hilarious. Well, that’s when you leave the kids to figure stuff out on their own. They’re going to just… They’re going to figure out what that acronym stands for.

Isn’t that the case of every older generation, that at some point they weep for the youth?

Right? I never thought I would be there, but I concur.

Just a lot of crying. We’re just doing a lot of crying.

And complaining. Where was I last week? I had to get my complaints out, and I just like “Hold on guys, let me complain about something and then we can move on.” I forget what it was, but… I don’t know. It was the way of the world. And it’s just like “Why? Why are we like this? Why do we have to complain about the way things are? Just accept, embrace and extinguish”, or something like that.

Something like that, yeah. Enjoy.

Enjoy. Accept, embrace, enjoy.

Yeah, you might as well, because…

That’s where I’m at. Like, “Well, what choice do you have?”

Just hem and haw, that’s all we can do. Can’t change anything, you know?

I’m more concerned about this new look Nick is rocking. Not just the shirt, and being a very important man, but…

…slightly more fluffy on top there.

Instagram. Instagram is how I get my style.

Instagram sold you that T-shirt?

It did. I mean, some ad on Instagram… It keeps zooming in on me, but let’s see if it’ll zoom in on Pierce. It’s him holding a –

Oh, he’s holding an N64 controller.

They pegged you demographically and got you to buy that.

That was one of the best games of all times. Modern for us in our era, back in the day for many… Or not in the day at all for most…

[laughs] It was back in the day for us, not back in the day for many. Yeah.

Speaking of, since we’re just like picking apart my appearance… Does my face look extra flushed?

Were you Santa recently, Nick?

Because your parents is very Santa-like, and it is December.

What is this [unintelligible 00:05:00.10] you’ve got going?

Oh, well, that is from my new favorite thing in the world, which you’re not going to believe… All it cost me was my dignity, and that’s…

I, before coming home to record this fantastic show with y’all, I was at a coffee shop… Wearing my Vision Pro, working…

I’m that guy, and proud to be it.

You’re the VIM. You’re the very important man, with his very important Vision Pro on his face.

Now, Jerod, had I known this information prior to the invitation, I would have considered rescinding.

Just rescind that – I mean, we could do it right now and [unintelligible 00:05:40.18] a five-minute episode…

Alright, y’all, this is the show. That’s it. Nick dropped the ball.

Sorry, guys. We can’t hang out with this guy. So who gave you this idea, and why did you follow it?

I’ve been doing a lot of travel, which - I’ve been spending a lot of time on airplanes. And trying to get work done – I’ve been flying mostly to San Francisco, and I’ve been flying United… And for some reason, the Omaha to San Francisco direct flight, for some reason, has free Starlink, which is amazing. So I can literally like stream TV shows.

And have fast internet. I could take Zoom calls, but I’m not that guy. Not yet.

You’re not? I don’t know, dude… [laughs] We’re gonna have to reconsider.

Is there Zoom in the Vision Pro? Maybe…

There is. There is. And when you connect with that, you connect with your avatar. So they just see like a weird 3D representation of me, which is amazing.

Is that what we’re looking at right now, or…?

Could be. No, this is really me.

Did you get the Ray-Ban glasses yet?

I have a pair. I used to work [unintelligible 00:06:39.18] Not the ones with the glasses…

Were you a glasshole? I can’t remember if you were a glasshole or not.

Oh, okay. Now we know where he draws the line… Or at least you used to draw it.

He’s an edger, man. He’s on the edge.

He is. You have all the cool new toys. So when did you get this Vision Pro? This is news to us.

Yeah. I got it pretty much the day it came out… The day it came out I was in San Francisco, and I walked over to the Union Square Apple Store, and they didn’t have one –

Oh, the new one. This is the new one.

Yes. I mean, the new one as in it has an M5 and literally nothing else new.

Right. Like, they re-released the same thing with an updated chip.

I know. I know I’m a sucker.

Did they reduce the price, too?

This is Apple we’re talking about. They never reduce prices.

They bumped it a little bit, too.

They probably did. Did they?

I mean, I shouldn’t say this, but when you’re spending that much, and they didn’t have it in stock, the one that I wanted, but they had the terabyte model, which was only like a small percentage of the total cost more to upgrade… I just got that.

How much of the small percentage was it? Can you be specific?

I don’t know exactly… I got the one terabyte model.

[00:07:54.26] You didn’t wait in line, did you? You weren’t waiting in line outside the…

Okay. Because I’ve just got a great visual of you downtown San Francisco, waiting in line with someone else… They’re waiting for like a crack hit or something, and you’re waiting for your Vision Pro…

They had their Rat Pack jackets on. [laughter]

Nick and some miscreants out there… Okay, so you didn’t have to wait in line.

Drop a ding there, Jason. Drop a ding there. That was a Silicon Valley reference. Nobody gets it.

I didn’t hear what you said.

They had the Rat Pack jackets on.

[unintelligible 00:08:24.09]

In the line, when Dinesh walking around with his Rat Pack jacket… It’s very colorful. Jerod Dunn from the show made them, and they were just a version of hideous. Flamboyant… I don’t know if I would call it flamboyant. Definitely like a version of a peacock, but like a poor version of it. It’s like a varsity jacket gone wrong.

Yeah, it’s kind of cool, actually.

Something that you’d imagine them wearing.

I’m telling you, if I had one, I would wear it right now. It’s cool.

Well, I see you have it playing in the background right next to your Cloudflare memorabilia…

Yeah, it’s a little bit back there… Where they at? Oh, there’s –

You must’ve fixed your Arch, by the way. Last show, Nick, Adam couldn’t run his television, because it had Arch as its base OS, and he couldn’t even get it to boot last week.

I could get it to boot… It just had issues, and I didn’t feel like dealing with it. It had one too many DIMMs. Now, I do have a friend who works at AMD, and he said “Hey, share with me your build specs and I will see what I can do.” And I said “Well, this isn’t customer support. I just want to know why the AM5 controller has such issues with four DIMMs?.”

Wait, so you’re running Linux right now?

I can’t talk about that… Yeah, back there I am. Always, man. It is officially the year of Linux desktop for me, man.

Are you running Linux, or is Linux running you? That’s the question.

Well, if I would have known this, I would have rescinded my acceptance… [laughter]

[unintelligible 00:09:48.14] I am the very important man here, okay?!

Well, Nick, I thought maybe your face was all flush because of this news that just came out this afternoon…

Oh, gosh… What’s the news?

Well, I’ve got some news… I’m not sure if my news – Nick, you’ve heard some other news maybe.

Are you gonna – what is it called? Paper rocks scissors it?

No, I think we should count down from three and say the news at the same time.

Okay. Three, two, one – Bun is being bought by Anthropic.

Oh, you didn’t say it. You were waiting for me.

I said Bun. I didn’t know if you were going to say Anthropic or Bun, so I was trying to match.

I know… That was good. So Anthropic, the corporation behind such products as Claude and Claude Code… I’m not sure what else they’ve got going for him.

We might talk about that later…

That’ll come up later, for sure. I think they used Bun. I think Claude is like written in Bun style JavaScript stuff. I guess, is there a Bun style? I’m far enough away from Bun at this point. I’ve interviewed Jerod a couple of times, but it’s been a few years… That I can’t remember how different it is from Node. Is it Node compatible?

Okay. So it’s like, take your Node code and run it faster, with some other stuff they had over there. Anyways, I’m flaunting my ignorance here… But I’m pretty sure that Claude Code is written in Bun, and then Anthropic, because they’re flush with all this investor money, I assume… Like, raising billions and billions of dollars… And they’re like “Yeah, we’re going to buy Bun.” And Bun said yes, which I think is what I would say if I was running Bun. Wouldn’t you, guys?

I mean, they’re probably getting a bun-ch of money…

That’s a bun-ch of baloney… I’m just kidding. That sounds buntastic.

I don’t know what to think.

I mean, it’s exciting, right? But what do they need to do to Bun that they couldn’t do as like this more open thing, or like independent thing?

[00:12:04.27] What does Anthropic need Bun to do, or to do to Bun, as you said?

If I was a diehard bunner, is this good news for me or is this bad news? Because Anthropic’s preference on whatever direction they need to take Bun into is now where it’s going. And so does that mean I left out because maybe it’s not the direction that I’m also hoping my product will go with Bun? Or do I now have like special treatment, because now Anthropic or Claude will inherently know everything about Bun, and know how to perfectly write code for Bun applications? …as just a side effect.

Or was Bun Inc. - or whatever they call it. Oven? I can’t remember what they call it. They’ve got good puns over there. Were they on their last a couple of months of payroll, and they didn’t find a way of monetizing, and Anthropic is like “We want this thing to continue”? It’s open source and MIT licensed, so the project would continue to exist, but not at the pace of progress that a full-time team can put behind it… And maybe it’s one of these bailout situations where it’s like “Let’s acquihire”, because Jarred Sumner and his team, obviously, very talented engineers, built something that’s quite useful and good, and has helped push the industry forward in the JavaScript server side world… “Let’s use some of this extra cash that we’re sitting on”, because they’ve raised so much money. Now, that being said, they’re also burning through a lot of it with GPU purchases, with rentals, with data center buildouts… They’re doing all kinds of stuff, Anthropic, and we don’t know if they’re actually making money per token at this point. Somebody probably knows, but I don’t know. Are they still losing money every time somebody does an inference? I know they’re losing it on you, Nick. I know they’re subsidizing your account…

Oh, I don’t know… I think I’m subsidizing everyone else’s. [laughter]

Or not. I don’t know. That’s something that’s – Anthropic is private, so they and their investors know that answer at this point. But if they are flush with cash, they certainly have cash on hand, and they’re probably looking for ways to spend it. It seems like a non-expensive, in their – I mean, expensive for us to buy, but not expensive for Anthropic to buy, proposition. But I definitely get your hesitation, like “Where might it go from here?” You never know. If the AI industry is a bubble, and the bubble bursts, is Anthropic more sustainable than Bun is? I don’t know. They seem like they are… They certainly seem like they’re on stable ground. But time will tell.

Yeah. It’s exciting, I think. It’s a win for JavaScript overall. I think that Bun and Deno are serving their purpose of moving Node forward, and maybe this is just like giving the torch back to Node a little bit on that… Because they’ve made a lot of great progress, I think in the more recent versions. There’s not a feature of Bun that I feel like I don’t get in Node. Maybe I just don’t know. I don’t pay attention to Bun too much, but… You can run TypeScript without compiling, which is great. You can compile binaries… ESM still sucks, but everything else seems good. There’s like an SQLite library like built in now? Or coming, at least? That’s cool.

Gotta have it built in, man… Does it get it to a single binary? Is it always a full flush, full feature web app? Is there binaries? Can you compile to a binary?

You can. I think it’s like bundling up the JS runtime and all of the Node modules into some kind of binary that can run, without you having to have Node installed. But…

In that case you’d want that SQLite built in, because you don’t want to have to have reliance on anything else in the system so you can ship a binary. But if you have to rely on SQLite being installed, then that’s not cool.

Sure. Yeah, I don’t think their all-in-one binaries are anywhere near as efficient as like Go’s, for instance. They’re going to be quite large, and I think Deno’s is the same way, where it’s like, it’s a large binary, even if it’s a small program. Now, if it’s a large program, who cares? But if you want to roll out a three megabyte compiled thing, you’re not going to get that without some fancy footwork from Bun. And I don’t think from Deno either. But the convenience is certainly there, which is really most of it at this point. I mean, we’re all very rich when it comes to hard drive space and bandwidth.

For sure. You know, earlier this year I was at SquiggleConf, that our friends Josh Goldberg and Dimitri Mitropoulos run… And there was a speaker there, Oliver Medhurst. I think he was there at Firefox before what they’re doing now, which is building a version of JavaScript that can compile to a straight binary, without having to have that wrapper.

When they were telling me about it, I was really excited. I’m like “Oh, this is where–” Imagine that being built into Claude. Like Claude Desktop, or like ChatGPT, and like you just being able to have that runtime that just can immediately and super-quickly run whatever it’s thinking. And like it can validate the code that it’s giving back to you on the fly, because it did it all right there in the browser. This feels like it may be a move towards that. To be honest, I didn’t read the blog post. I saw the tweet. That’s all I –

Sure. Well, the blog post, at least from Bun’s side, is very straightforward, well written. Jarred Sumner penned it. And he does say what doesn’t change is that Bun stays open source and MIT-licensed, so that’s great. It continues to be extremely actively maintained. The same team still works on Bun. Bun is still built in the public, on GitHub. And then it says “Bun’s roadmap will continue to focus on high performance JavaScript tooling, Node compatibility, and replacing Node as a default server side runtime for JavaScript.” What does change is we will help make coding tools like Claude Code and Claude Agent SDK faster and smaller.” So there you go. “We get a closer first look at what’s around the corner for AI coding tools, and make Bun better for it, and Bun will ship faster.”

So that’s from his perspective today. Now, we’ve read a lot of these acquisition posts where the first thing they say is “Nothing is changing.” And it’s like, nothing was going to change for GitHub either when Microsoft acquired GitHub… But here we are, five years later, and it has changed quite a bit, hasn’t it?

Wait, GitHub still exists? It’s not just Copilot?

Well, there’s another story going on today, which – not today, but it’s started a little while back and continues, which is that people are starting to move off GitHub now.

Codeberg. Codeberg, which is a GitHub-alike, run by a nonprofit in the European Union. And I’m not sure all the intricacies there, except that they are seemingly – and I don’t want to make this sound bad, but maybe it will… They’re seemingly only interesting insofar as they’re a GitHub-alike that’s a nonprofit, and run from the European Union. I don’t see anything with their technology that looks like it’s new or attractive. Like, they’re not going to disrupt because of that, because of technology. They’re going to disrupt because GitHub is a broken windows situation over there at Microsoft, and getting more and more bloated, and shoving Copilot in our face everywhere we turn, and people are getting sick of it… And so here’s a different place to land.

[00:20:11.24] And so Zig has moved off GitHub to Codeberg, and there’s a few other that are doing that as well. Some of it is ideological, social concerns, and then the others is just like JavaScript bloat and GitHub Actions not working as it’s supposed to, and just complaints about the platform. As a platform, basically, Microsoft has been ignoring the core product, which we’ve all felt in various ways.

This looks exactly like GitHub, in a lot of ways…

It does. It’s basically like “Let’s do GitHub, but somewhere else.”

The UX of username, repo is locked in… There’s so much that’s locked in. I was just telling you this too, Jerod, recently… I can’t imagine a world where Git isn’t it, the thing we use… Although JJ is really coming for Git’s good stuff, I suppose… And I guess GitHub - it’s stamped itself as the gold standard of the UX; not so much the platform itself, but the UX of username, repo, even pull requests, even releases… All these things that are sort of nailed down, even down to Actions, and stuff like that. It’s cemented itself as the primary user experience to follow. It doesn’t surprise me. Where do you go? You go here, you’ve got code, you’ve got issues, you’ve got releases, you’ve got activity.

Pull requests, not merge requests, or whatever…

GitLab calls them merge requests?

To this day, merge requests. Like, “No, you lost that bet.”

“We’re not going to call it that, GitLab. You can work as hard as you want.”

I can’t believe they’ve gone this far with merge requests.

You know how far Leo Laporte went calling podcasts netcasts? I mean, it took him a decade to finally give up on it.

No, he doesn’t do it anymore.

I actually listened to MacBreak Weekly last week, and I remember distinctly hearing “Podcasts you love, from people you trust”, and I’m like “He finally gave it up. He finally gave up netcasts.” He just wasn’t going to call it podcast.

I mean, he’s been highly successful, but he did not have enough clout to change people to call it netcasts. And GitLab did not have enough clout to get us to call them merge request. It’s just not going to happen.

It was an uphill battle the whole way. The whole way.

Do y’all call them pods? Are you onto that?

Sometimes, yeah. Well, not usually plurally, but individually. Like, “the pod”, or “Let’s do a pod.”

I was in a meeting before this and said “I’ve gotta go. I’ve gotta pod.”

Do you hate that term? [laughs]

I did. I’ve come around to it.

“I did… Until I realized you guys say it. Now I’m going to back off.” No.

No, no, no, no. I’ve come around to it, but… I can’t remember where I first started hearing it…

Yeah. I definitely resisted at first. I resist lots of stuff, and eventually I’m like “Meh, it is shorter…”

I did, too. I was like “Pod? It’s a podcast. Come on.”

Is the pod the important part, or the cast? I guess we’ve all decided the pod is what it is.

Nobody even realizes probably anymore that that’s from like iPod, right?

Wow. Right, though? I mean, that’s the thing, too - you have to appreciate the small beginnings… And the iPod was not a necessarily a small beginning, but the idea that podcasts began in a place that didn’t exist when Steve jobs was saying “A thousand songs in your pocket.” What was the number? Like 10,000?

I think a thousand was the one that he started with.

That was the first one, yeah.

In your pocket. And that’s what started off the opportunity for a podcast to be a thing, which was independent distributed audio via an mp3, on a device that became super-popular. That’s the –

Oh, and it was painful back in the day, because I was an early, early adopter, and it was not easy to get your actual mp3 files onto your iPod… Because you had to go into iTunes. You subscribed in iTunes…

What’s iTunes? I’m just kidding.

[00:24:01.12] Exactly. Doesn’t exist anymore. Apple Podcasts now. But it was called iTunes back then. Also Apple Music…

And then you had to actually sync it to your iPod before you leave the house, and then you’d take them with you.

And there was no third-party podcast players. And Apple didn’t really have one, it was just built into iTunes. It was awful.

Yeah, it was just the basic audio player.

That’s how bad we needed information back then. There was no TikTok, there was no – there was LinkedIn probably, but it wasn’t the LinkedIn it is today.

There was certainly no Twitter/X, there was certainly no Mastodon…

We’re talking like 2005… What year was this?

2004, I want to say, was the beginning of podcasts. Around 2003, 2004.

It probably wasn’t until 2008, 2009 that I started becoming a heavy podcast listener.

Yeah. I could be wrong on the numbers. I’d say 2004, is my…

I’m phoning a friend right now, so we’ll get some facts here.

Phoning a friend… But yeah, humble beginnings, man. An iPod started off podcasting, which we call pods now. We’re on a pod. There you go.

Oh, wow. I’m going to go ahead and do a mea culpa on this one. LinkedIn is longer than I thought it was. Holy cow. You were right, Adam. LinkedIn actually started in May of 2003. LinkedIn.

Yeah. Wow. It’s been around for a while.

I’m like user number 23, Jerod on LinkedIn, okay?

You should have like 6 million followers over there.

Facebook was 2004, 2005. Because I graduated high school in 2005, and I was touring my college, and they brought us to a computer lab and had us sign up for Facebook…

They’re like “We have Facebook here.”

Yeah. I thought it was just part of like what the school did. I didn’t know that it was this thing…

That it was like the blackboard software? “We also have Facebook. You’re going to sign up right here.”

That’s how it was. Everybody signed up.

February, 2004 was Facebook, and podcasting was 2003 for the tech, and 2004 for the term. The term was coined in 2004 by journalist Ben Hammersley, who combined iPod with broadcast.

So what I just learned is LinkedIn is ancient, man. That thing is ancient.

It is ancient. It’s gone through some iterations, too. I mean, it’s largely been a version of what it is, but now they have the timeline, and a lot of things happening there…

Their timeline is the worst one there is, isn’t it?

Yeah… There’s a setting, if you didn’t know this, that you can do chronological. So you don’t have to worry about them shoving it down your throat, with like –

I think it reverts, though. I’ve tried to set it before and a couple of weeks later it’s back to whatever it’s called. Algorithmically…

You know what’s funny, is almost every time I log into LinkedIn, the first post that it shows me is somebody - it might be the same person, but it’s somebody posting the AOC “tax the rich” dress. Remember she wore that dress, that white dress to some red carpet, and it said “Tax the rich” on the back? And somebody is using that to make some sort of business point… Like, I don’t even have to click into it. I don’t care. But for some reason, at least once or twice a week when I log in LinkedIn, I see AOC and her “Tax the rich.” And it’s been like that for months.

So it’s either stuck in a loop, or that thing is super-popular. I think it’s like maybe a key to go viral over there.

Yeah, I should log out…

Break: [00:27:23.06]

I’m surprised by Codeberg, honestly. I’ve heard of this, I didn’t give it much attention… And so you’re saying that Git recently moved?

No, I’m saying Zig. The Zig programming language.

Zig program. Okay, my bad.

Yeah, my bad. Zig then. So Zig moved from GitHub to Codeberg.

And what they said - Andrew Kelly, who’s the founder – or sorry, the creator of the programming language… I guess he’s also founded it, but… Different communities there. What he said is that the only thing – or what I read out of his post as like the main thing that he’s going to experience pain moving away from is GitHub Sponsors. Because that’s how they have received a lot of the recurring donations, and have allowed the programming language to flourish over the years. And so now they’re moving off that, and they’re trying to find out how to get their donators to move with them, without losing a bunch of money. And so that’s their main concern. So there’s your moat, GitHub; it’s apparently Sponsors. Which also, they just completely ignore, right?

Yeah… That’s all I could do on that one, man.

You know, we’ve just – I just don’t even know, I guess. They need a head of product on it that just cares deeply, and won’t stop, or leave… And they just don’t have that, I think. Devin, she had different ideas… Who else was that we knew that worked there? Jessica, but I can’t remember her last name. Lord… She was there for a bit. She came on the pod when she first joined GitHub with that role. I did say pod… And then since then, I’m not sure who’s been in charge of it.

I don’t think anyone’s in charge of it.

I mean, yeah, they don’t even have a CEO, right?

What’s going on over there?

They’re just – they’re part of the AI-something. AI core.

How can you be the epicenter of open source, and it’s won, and not command the ship? I don’t get it. I don’t get it.

How can you be the epicenter of JavaScript. Like with GitHub, but also with TypeScript…?

With Npm, and - that was the one I was going to call out. How are they not completely embarrassed by how much they’ve let Npm languish? It’s terrible.

Is Isaac still there, or did he leave already? I’m not sure if Isaac’s still there or not.

I don’t think he’s there.

Isn’t he doing Vault, or whatever…?

He was doing Vault, but he might have actually moved on from there. I don’t know, he moves a lot.

So he was going to come on the podcast. Yes, I said podcast… Just because I went that far back in history with Isaac’s. He was going to come on the podcast just before the acquisition, and he wanted to talk… But couldn’t, because why do that when you’ve got the save-me money coming in, right? And then maybe even the fun job for a bit. I wonder if he’s ready. Isaac, are you ready? Let’s do it.

[00:32:17.19] So when you say Isaac, you’re referring to the creator of Npm.

Just for everybody who’s not been around as long as the rest of us have.

I have an old brain, and I’ve forgotten his full name in this moment… So I’m also just trying to use his known in my brain connection… What is his full name?

Isaac Schleuter. There you go. Thank you. I knew I’d have it. I’m an old man who needs a dot connected. Isaac Schleuter. If you’re ready, Isaac, we have microphones. We have a pod. Come back to us.

Yeah, how do you do that? How do you be GitHub and be in that position…? I wonder if it’s just the fact that you’ve got so many engineers. Does that become a problem? Probably not, right? You can move fast with more engineers. I think it comes down to leadership, right? You’ve got to have leadership.

You’d think they’d have some kind of release to show that Npm was still alive, but… Their lunch is being eaten all around them, which is crazy. I think Socket’s doing a great job of having almost a better UI for Npm than Npm… Plus all of the security stuff. Really excited about that. And then I’m really excited about the JSR project from the Deno folks. That’s an exciting place to go.

Which is a new registry, right?

Yes. JS registry, I assume.

So you have JSR, then you have Bun, which is Npm-compatible… Who is the winner here? Who is the one on top that everybody’s feeding off of? Who’s the leech and who’s the leechers?

I don’t know, Anthropic might be the winner at this point. They’ve got Claude Code. Claude Code’s winning.

If you don’t think that, you’re wrong.

Well, they’ve got the UX. I mean – alright, I mean, Gemini 3 is really good.

For the weekend before Claude Opus 4.5 came out…

That’s right. Then again, it’s like “Back in your place there, Google.”

It’s a lot of leapfrog when it comes to the frontier models, for sure.

It wasn’t just that. I was a dedicated Sonnet 4.5 user before that. And specifically, when you’re paying the API rates, you can have the option for a million token context window… Absolutely amazing. I could work all day, on the same project, without ever clearing context, and I just never ran out. It was so good. And then…

I’ve never had that experience. I just – I reboot a lot.

But I was spending a lot of money. You can customize the status line in Claude Code, and one of the things you can put on there is just a running dollar amount of how much this conversation is currently costing you, or costing your company.

I don’t want to know that.

I do… It’s a leaderboard, man. [laughter]

You’re trying to be in the trillion token club, aren’t you?

I one time posted a picture of it where I ran /cost, and it was at $420.17 cents. And I just posted that screenshot in Slack and said “Am I in trouble?” [laughs]

Is that fixed on a $200 a month plan? Or are you actually paying that amount because you’ve got API tokens?

API tokens. So there is no limit. We never get – I mean, there is a limit, and we hit it once.

But it’s – I don’t know, they have different tiers of whatever. I don’t luckily have to think about that. But I will say that Opus 4.5 is not only better than all the other models I’ve used, it’s so much cheaper. So much. It’s crazy. I think Opus before that was like – it was $25 per million input tokens, and $75 per million output tokens… Now it’s $15 and $25, I think, respectively.

[00:36:06.28] Yeah, I guess I haven’t paid as close attention as you have on that front, Nick. You’re definitely the bleeding edge on this. You’re edging.

I mean, that’s – whatever. But I also think – I don’t know, my controversial take is like… OpenAI is over here, making cool things, don’t get me wrong… Their voice mode, having conversations with it - that’s the biggest competitor to podcast time in the car for me, is just like talking to ChatGPT, with a voice conversation…

Because I can lead the conversation wherever I want, and I can stop it, and I can interrupt, and go in a different direction completely. We can be talking about code one time, and then I can be asking it about the fourth dimension in the same conversation, and just like… It’s really fun.

So I’ve done a little bit of that, and honestly, I just run out of stuff to talk about.

Do you not run out of stuff to talk about?

Sometimes… And I don’t know, you catch yourself – you know that if you pause for too long, it’s just going to start talking, so you have to know what you’re saying… It’s a different dynamic.

It’s just smarter than I am. It’s commanding this relationship too much.

[laughs] That’s cool. And I think Sora is cool. Have you guys played with Sora?

The original, not Sora 2.

No, not the social network. You’re on there though, right?

I am, and I’m having fun just making –

Does that integrate with your Vision Pro at all?

Okay… Go ahead, tell us what you’re up to over there.

I just make – I put myself into classic movie scenes… Which you have to be careful about, because you can’t, like –

Yeah. We just did a company onsite in San Francisco, and as part of that – I was part of a group that went to Alcatraz. So of course, before I went, I watched The Rock, so that I know what I’m looking at… And then I thought, “What’s the classic scene from The Rock?”, and it’s where Nick Cage has like the green smoke above him, on the roof…

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