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Notes & Links
Chapters
| 1 | 00:00 | Let's "sotl" | 01:06 |
| 2 | 01:06 | Sponsor: Depot | 02:46 |
| 3 | 03:52 | 8th time & Friends | 00:43 |
| 4 | 04:35 | What it's all about | 02:36 |
| 5 | 07:11 | Andrew Patton VM | 02:33 |
| 6 | 09:44 | Reacting to Andrew | 01:56 |
| 7 | 11:40 | Andrew Patton BMC Remix | 00:51 |
| 8 | 12:31 | Brett Cannon VM | 01:34 |
| 9 | 14:05 | Reacting to Brett | 05:04 |
| 10 | 19:08 | Brett Cannon BMC Remix | 01:30 |
| 11 | 20:39 | Don MacKinnon VM | 00:37 |
| 12 | 21:15 | Reacting to Don | 02:22 |
| 13 | 23:37 | Don MacKinnon BMC Remix | 01:21 |
| 14 | 24:58 | Fernando Bevilacqua VM | 01:50 |
| 15 | 26:48 | Reacting to Fernando | 03:55 |
| 16 | 30:43 | Fernando Bevilacqua BMC Remix | 01:14 |
| 17 | 31:57 | Sponsor: Augment Code | 02:59 |
| 18 | 34:57 | Jamie Tanna VM | 02:50 |
| 19 | 37:46 | Reacting to Jamie | 03:54 |
| 20 | 41:41 | Jamie Tanna BMC Remix | 00:58 |
| 21 | 42:38 | Jarvis Yang VM | 01:17 |
| 22 | 43:56 | Reacting to Jarvis | 06:11 |
| 23 | 50:07 | Jarvis Yang BMC Remix | 00:52 |
| 24 | 50:59 | Justin Dorfman VM | 00:41 |
| 25 | 51:40 | Reacting to Justin | 00:37 |
| 26 | 52:17 | Justin Dorfman BMC Remix | 00:51 |
| 27 | 53:08 | Nabeel Sulieman VM | 00:48 |
| 28 | 53:56 | Reacting to Nabeel | 05:06 |
| 29 | 59:01 | Nabeel Sulieman BMC Remix | 02:07 |
| 30 | 1:01:08 | Sponsor: Framer | 01:39 |
| 31 | 1:02:47 | Our favs | 24:07 |
| 32 | 1:26:54 | Fav titles | 04:37 |
| 33 | 1:31:31 | Movie hour | 08:29 |
| 34 | 1:40:00 | Bye, friends | 01:06 |
| 35 | 1:41:05 | Closing thoughts | 01:18 |
Transcript
Here we are, the eighth annual State of the ’log. Can you believe? …eight times this has happened.
This eighth one is going to be a charm, too.
Oh, my gosh… Don’t say the word charm, Jerod…
Oh, my gosh… Hey, you know what I’m saying, right? Y’all out there…
Welcome, everyone. Welcome back, hopefully, or welcome for the first time… If this is your first time listening, this is not how it normally goes, but…
It normally goes like this once a year.
This is how it always goes eight times.
And we have eight voicemails to listen to, from some of our longtime listeners, and some newer listeners… So that is cool.
Maybe a little recap on what this is. What do you think? A little recap on what this is.
I was just thinking about that, because you mentioned the new listener potential, and I was thinking, like, a tiny little recap. So State of the ‘log - we’re called The Changelog, so this is State of the ’log… And all year we worked tirelessly, Jerod, to log, I would say the developer journey, from the new project, to the sale of a company, to a new side project, to an acquisition… You name it. The latest platform that may be out there, the newest framework in the JavaScript world, which is like on the daily… Bun acquisitions, just to name specifically, you know… And as we talk to these humans - not just these machines; these humans in this world - we get to podcast, and share, and all that good stuff. And this is a sort of an examination of that. But first, we invite our listenership, those folks that are listening to this show, to submit a voicemail. And then we hand that voicemail. Am I stealing some of your thunder here? I know you do a good job of like doing this. Am I stealing some of this?
Okay, cool. Breakmaster Cylinder behind the scenes produces our music… I won’t share the real name, because he’s still anonymous… But Breakmaster Cylinder is beloved by us; he produces all of our music, we love that. And Jerod collects his voicemails… I stay out of it because I want to be surprised in this moment… I’ve listened to none of these yet. And so each year we do this State of the ‘log. We kind of go back through, we invite folks to send voicemails, what they love about this show, what they don’t love about this show, and then Breakmaster makes these cool remixes, which are super-cool. And we have fun listening to those, and just kind of like diving in… And for those who may be new and don’t know me, I don’t like watching movie trailers. So these are like movie trailers. These are like little voicemail movie trailers that I can’t watch, because it ruins the movie. And so I’ve heard none of these, this is fresh for me… And I’ll hand it back to you, Jerod. Hopefully, I did a pretty decent job of describing State of ’log.
That’s right. So this is the movie, and we’re about to watch it together, or listen to it, as is the case, with voicemail. So thank you to all of you who wrote in, and to everybody who listened throughout the year. We’ve put out a lot of pods, almost 150, if you count News. If you take News out, that’s almost a hundred… As each of our three legs of our table did about 50 episodes, as we tend to do per year. And so that’s a lot… It is tough to pick faves, but we’ve done the work, and our listeners have done the work… And let’s kick off with our first voicemail.
Now, I know what you’re thinking… In what order do these voicemails come? Do we do it chronologically, by reception? No. Do we do it alphabetically, by last name? No. Do we do it alphabetically by first name? Yes.
How do we do it?! How do we do it?!?
[laughs] Alphabetically by first name, because that’s the way Finder arranged them…
The files came in, and they’re just “Put your first name first”, and so I guess Andrew Patton, with first name Andrew, gets to go first. So let’s listen to Andrew’s voicemail.
Hello, Changelog family. First time leaving a voicemail, which is very exciting… Though I’ve been listening for many years. I checked, and Changelog takes home the gold for my most listened to podcast in 2025, at 105 hours… Which would have been 111 and a half hours at 1X, because I only use smart speed, so as not to ruin those banging beats…
This year I really enjoyed Friends #75, with Mat Ryer as a pianist. It was a joy hearing him switch from guitar to piano for that episode… And the Weird and Wonderful Mat World episode, which was episode #90, was also great. The entire Pipe Dream saga in the Kaizen episodes this year was very fun, including that dramatic onstage live launch…
The Changelog interview 635 about TigerBeetle was fascinating. Changelog Friends #96 with Steve Yegge is always entertaining, and certainly interesting… The interview #664 with Adam Jacob was another really interesting and enlightening episode…
All the Changelog Beats releases and everything that Breakmaster Cylinder provides… I really missed JS Party this year. I was open for a few more dysfunctional developer episodes, but I love the multiple three-way conversations between Jerod, Adam, and Nick Nisi, including Friends #89, #102 and the most recent. They are always very funny, they’re always very relevant to the issues of the day, and I find it somewhat mind-blowing when I get a peek into the habits and methods of Nick Nisi.
Thank you all for all you do, and looking forward to a great 2026.
Hm… The habits and methods.
Yeah, that’s a good show title.
That’s cool. That’s cool, man.
[laughs] Next time Nick’s on, we should have one called “The Habits and Methods of Nick Nisi.”
I do enjoy Nick as well. I concur with everything – what was his name again, I’m sorry?
With everything Andrew said. I was too busy listening to catch the first name, I’m sorry, Andrew. But yeah, I concur. Adam Jacob, Nick Nisi, Mat Ryer playing the guitar… I mean, that’s just podcast gold there.
So I have collated the list… I’ll put that in the show notes. We’ll have all these favorite episodes listed. Andrew listed 11. So… That’s a lot. Not the most. There is somebody who’s going to list more than 11. It’s probably going to be you, Adam… But in addition to Adam, there’s somebody else - to set up a teaser there; not a spoiler, but a teaser - who’s going to outdo Andrew… But still, that’s a good list. And for our lists, we try not to overlap listener lists, and so you and I have both created our own lists, but however, we’re kind of crossing off the ones that they mentioned as they go, so that we don’t have too much overlap… Because that’s just repetition, and we don’t at all want to keep dry around here.
He took a lot of my favorites though, I’m not going to lie. A lot of his favorites were my favorites… And speaking of JS Party and Nick Nisi, and Amal Hussein, who was on the show last year, but didn’t quite hit the three-timer pace that Nick hit and that Mat Ryer hit… She’s coming back on the show in January. So Amal actually did reach out recently and say “Hey, how come Nick’s on the show more than I am?” And I just said “I can’t get rid of this guy. He’s always hanging around. Whereas you disappear for a while and then come back. So you’re always welcome, Amal…” And she’s coming soon, so a little more JS Party sprinkled in upcoming episodes.
Alright, do you want the Andrew Patton remix?
Here we go.
Hello, Changelog family. I’ve been a pianist for many years, which is very exciting… I was hoping for a few more banging piano beats from Breakmaster Cylinder… They are always very dramatic, and certainly interesting. Looking forward to a weird and wonderful 2026.
Those are special moments right there, man… Listening to those banging beats, a sweet voicemail remix like that… And a nice little crazy outro. If you knew Breakmaster like we know Breakmaster - very fitting. It’s a very fitting outro to the banging beats.
100 percent. Alright. Up next, because - hey, his name starts with a B… It’s our old friend, and I think every year caller inner, hopefully…
Here we go!
Hello, Adam and Jerod. It’s Brett Cannon, calling for that annual tradition to see whether I can read dates appropriately while I tell you about my favorite episodes that I got to listen to this year. So I’m going to start off with The Power of the Button, which you actually recorded in 2024, but didn’t publish until 2025, so I’m safe… I found that episode kind of fun just to have that twist on it of talking about the physicality of the world, and just how that kind of ties into technology, and just kind of the different approach of just seeing how things tie in on both sides of both the physical and the software for all of us.
The next episode I liked a lot was the “1,000 Times Faster Financial Database” with Joran from TigerBeetle. I just thought that was a really cool chat to show that sometimes - you know what? You don’t have to take the general solution. Sometimes it’s okay to actually build something from scratch if it leads to a simple solution that really gets you what you’re after.
I also really enjoyed the chat with Bert Hubert, Build Software That Lasts. It’s just a lot of good advice that I think a lot of us could stand to listen to consistently.
And then finally, the wsl.exe – cat hello.cs episode I liked a lot, for two reasons. One, Adam’s total infatuation with WSL was rather infectious and great to hear… And also, I wanted to give a letter of recommendation for Mads. He is an awesome person. And with that, to give Breakmaster Cylinder something to work with - Andrea, did not listen to any of these episodes, so she loves them, as does our kiddo. Thanks.
So to bring everybody else in on that reference of Andrea at the end - go back to previous states of the ‘log in which BMC created a hilarious remix of Brett’s previous message, where the whole thing is centered around his wife Andrea… Which was one of my favorites from previous years.
I’m not gonna lie, BMC’s remix of this one - also one of my favorites. But first, do you want to address Brett’s actual content of what he had to say, or should we…?
Power of the Button was definitely powerful… And that was a – I think I mentioned the Good for Nothing Button book in that show… And that just brings like the titling of our shows, which I think we may introduce a new category, which is Best Title… That was a fun title for me, obviously for the content, but then also the Good for Nothing Button book that I’ve read with my kids. You know, I don’t know where the infectious feelings I had towards WSL went…
…but I think they went with Windows, out the door, to some degree… I’m such a wishy-washy operating system person. I can’t help it. I’m a literal – I would say an OS hopper, not even a distro hopper.
You are a hopper. You want to call it a sampler, but it’s more of a hopper, I think.
Yeah, it kind of is, honestly… You know, I just want to love Windows, and I just wish they would get it together. there’s so much good stuff in there, and just too much AI getting slapped around. Anyways… WSL is really cool though, for Windows. I think if for some reason you’ve got to be in that world, where you have no choice because that’s where your platform is, your applications are, your company’s at, then – you know, it is what it is, and that’s what you’ve got to do. I think WSL is the next best thing, and super-cool for that to be embedded in Windows. That to me is a technological feat that I love… So if I had to be in Windows, I could only be there happily because of WSL.
[00:16:09.04] Right. Which didn’t exist back when I switched away…
…and I think it’s very cool that it does exist… But I just don’t have that problem anymore.
Can we address this title, though? wsl.exe – cat hello.cs. That was your title, Jerod.
You came up with that, all on your own.
And when you said it to me, I was like “Ship it, man. Just ship it.”
Well, I had a hard time naming that one, because it was two interviews. And so it was the one about WSL and then the other one with Mads - is it Torgersen? I can’t remember his last name, the current lead design on C#. And it’s like “Well, it’s two different things, and…” I don’t know, you have this and that… What do you do? And then I was like – I don’t even know where I came up with that, but I just thought “Let’s just send a command up there and say hello to C#”, you know… “Let’s just have WSL tell us hello.”
It’s also been too long since we’ve talked to Brett, and I feel like we’ve done ourselves a disservice with Changelog & Friends missing that friend.
Well said. Come back, Brett. Anytime… We will invite you personally soon, unless you email us first, and [unintelligible 00:17:18.21]
We did some Python coverage this year, but we were talking with other folks, you know… We’re just kind of mixing it up a little bit.
And not that we have to talk to Brett about Python, but – of course, he moved on from the steering committee, but there’s lots to say there. And I haven’t watched John Wick 4, so maybe I’ve been avoiding him, just ashamed of myself for not having done that…
Or Dune. We talked about Dune 2, and John Wick 4…
Those were the things we were supposed to do to get back together.
And I did not watch Dune 2, because I’m still kind of mad at Dune 1.
Dune 2 was so good, man. It was so good. It is so good. It’s a rewatch for me. I have a hard time going and watching Dune 1 again, because it was sort of a slow burn to the storyline…
It was a slow burn. It never ended, too.
But Dune 2 takes all that to the next level… And it’s worth it. I mean, it’s good. It’s good.
Now, I know I told you this, but I’m not sure if I said this on the show. When I went and saw Dune 1, they didn’t call it Dune 1.
And I didn’t do trailers or anything, because I’m like “It’s Dune. I want to watch it.”
And I don’t get out to movies very often… And so I got out to a movie, and I went to Dune 1, and I was enjoying the heck out of it, even though it was a slow burn… I’m patient. I like slow movies. And then I realized it’s only half of a movie. And I just got very angry, because they didn’t say Dune 1. At least then I would have known what I was getting myself into.
But I remember being like two hours in, thinking “How are they going to get through all this? There’s so much more that happens.” And then I’m like “Oh, they aren’t.” And then it was - what, three years later for Dune 2? I was just too mad. I’m like “I’m not going to see it. I’m just over it.”
Now, it’s been long enough that maybe I can just change that attitude, my bad attitude… But that was my stance prior. And that’s why I haven’t seen Dune 2 yet, even though I hear it’s pretty good.
It’s pretty good. Yeah, I would recommend it.
Speaking of pretty good, do you want to hear this BMC remix of Brett Cannon?
Oh, there’s power – if you think there’s power in the button, just wait for this one.
Hello, Adam and Jerod. It’s Brett Cannon calling, for that annual tradition to tell you about my favorite episodes. So I’m going to start off with the Power of the Button, talking about the physicality of the button, and just how that kind of ties into technology. The next episode I liked a lot was the 1,000 butt infections… I just thought that was a really cool chat to show that sometimes - you know what? You don’t have to take the journal solution. Sometimes it’s okay to actually scratch your butt if it really gets you what you’re after… So I’m safe.
And then finally, the kind of fun cat butt episode… Just a lot of good cat butt advice that I think a lot of us can stand to listen to consistently… Andrea did not love any of these episodes, but you know what? It’s okay… She still is an awesome person.
I hope you like that, Brett…
That’s edgy. That’s edgy. Do we have to bleep that one at all? Are there any bleeps there?
I just think – I think ‘butt’ is pretty pedestrian at this point.
It was good. That was good. Oh my gosh, the cat… Oh, gosh. The cat…
[00:20:19.17] I’m still 12 years old at heart… You know, a good butt joke just still hits me.
Yeah. I’m just past a chest cold, and that made me want to cough some stuff up, let’s just say…
Yeah, it’s kind of like… It’s percolating. It’s percolating.
Alright. Next up, another long-time listener and first-time guest this year… It’s Don McKinnon.
Greetings, friends. My favorite episode of 2025 was an early one… Terso is Rewriting SQLite in Rust. One reason is I’m a sucker for people building in Rust - big surprise - but more importantly, I enjoyed it because I got to learn about the concept of deterministic simulation testing, which I found to be pretty fascinating. I always love the episodes where I get to learn about a concept that I haven’t run up against before.
Anywho, thank you guys for the podcast, and looking forward to what you have lined up in 2026.
Pretty cool stuff… Of course, we did talk about that as well on the TigerBeetle episode… But Glauber Costa from Turso certainly introduced it to both of us, and apparently a lot of other people, on that episode. So yeah, that’s part of what we do here, is just kind of uncover techniques that other people are doing, that you may not have heard of, and maybe they’ll help you on your path… Maybe they won’t, but just being more well-rounded, while not having to work too hard. You know, just listen to a couple of doofs ask silly questions, and you learn a thing or two.
That’s a good way to summarize it. I like that. Doofs.
A couple of doofs… I don’t know, I’ve never done any deterministic simulation testing. Have you?
No, that was actually really, really revealing, because I had never heard of that concept, and it seemed to be… I’m trying to recall exactly how they were leveraging it. It was like being able to have confidence in the future because it tested it, and it went kind of like an AI might even do to figure things out that you wouldn’t normally figure out, like non-written tests that get tested. It’s kind of the unknown unknowns kind of thing.
Yeah, it’s like a fuzzer, to a certain extent. It’s like a fuzzer for tests, but it was deterministic, and so it could be completely reproducible… Whereas fuzzers generally will produce pseudo-random stuff. It’s reproducible, and therefore you get regression type of assurances as well. Obviously, I don’t know exactly how it works. That’s why we invite the experts on and tell us.
You know, I should look into this more now that this is brought up, because as you may know, I’m working on this thing called DNS Hole. And one thing I actually introduced was this thing called DNS Chaos. DNS Hole Chaos. And it was essentially throwing chaos at this DNS server to attack it, and make it push its boundaries. And so pushing different RFCs, different things around it that it is supposed to support, and should support. And it’s kind of like deterministic testing, or this DST… It’s like, how can you push a system in a certain way and test its boundaries? That’s kind of wild stuff. I should look more into DSTs.
You should. DNS Hole - do we have to bleep that? I don’t know.
Alright, here’s Don McKinnon’s remix.
Greetings, friends. I always love the episodes where I get to learn about a concept that I haven’t run up against before. My favorite episode - I enjoyed it because I got to learn I’m in a simulation… Which I found to be pretty fascinating. And my friends and the people have always been in this simulation. Big surprise, but… Anyhow, thank you guys for the podcast.
Into the Matrix. I love that.
Great Matrix sound at the end there.
And then the – it’s still going, yes…
Trail-off in the crowd noise there.
I was thinking, was that crowd noise crowdsourced from the meetup in Denver?
Because that’s where BMC was with us, and I wonder if he maybe pulled out his phone and captured some sound, and reused it later on for us.
We should go ask. That would be a deep cut if that was the case.
That would be a deep cut. Like a well-planned deep cut, like “I’m going to need this one day.”
“Someday I’m going to mix this into something they asked me for.”
That would be really cool. And it turned out to be Don McKinnon’s simulation crowd. Alright… Next up we have Fernando - and his last name is tough, because he’s from Brazil. Bevilacqua? Bevilacqua… I don’t know.
He’ll say it, so… He’ll get it right. Here we go.
Hey, Adam and Jerod. This is Fernando Bevilacqua, speaking all the way from Brazil. I’ve been a longtime listener of the pod, since 2015. My favorite episodes of this year were Flowing with Agents, episode #658, and Reaching Industrial Economies of Scale, episode #632, both with Beyang Liu. They were very insightful, about the usage of agents in everyday activities we have with software development… And I think they give us a glimpse into the future of how software development and how technology in the field will evolve.
Last but not least, episode Solving the AI Energy Crisis, #652, with Greg Osuri. That was a very interesting talk about politics, about infrastructure, about how to grow AI in a more practical way; not about just technology, but how to build the real world, the physical things we need to sustain this kind of advancement. And I just want to say that it took me 10 years, but 2026 will not only be the year of the Linux desktop, but it will be the year that I will become a Changelog++ subscriber. Hard-earned money will be shared with you guys. I’ve been following you and really admire your work, and I want to support the creators… Especially in this sea of AI slop, I really want to see people with critical thinking, and making the good questions, and intriguing thoughts, and making us reflect on the path we have to follow.
That’s it, guys… Keep on rocking, and thanks for all the pods.
I don’t know about you, Jerod, but that’s why we do it, man… Right there.
I mean, who could have said it better? In an age of AI slop, we are the critical thinkers…? Maybe not me and you necessarily, but by proxy, of course…
Right. We talk to the critical thinkers.
That’s right. That’s cool, man… All the way from Brazil, too. I mean, that just shows you how big the world is, and how big the reach is for an mp3 on the internet, dude. That’s…
Yeah… Super, super-cool. Thank you, Fernando, for writing it in. Digging the Beyang Liu episodes, of course. There’s one of your critical thinkers there… Always worth talking to Beyang about what he thinks where the world is going, and some of where he’s making the world go by the efforts they’re doing there at Sourcegraph and Amp.
And of course, Solving the AI Energy Crisis - that was, I think, one of our more controversial episodes of the year. It probably created one of the longest threads in our Zulip channel, because people began to debate and discuss the merits of AI and energy, and politics… And it gets a little bit drawn down some political lines, because of people’s approaches to these things, but… I liked the Greg Osuri episode because he cracked me up a couple times… Like when he put on the glasses - that was funny. He’s doing some really cool, weird stuff with his house he’s building… Just a very interesting human, with interesting takes…
[00:28:20.11] And these centralized AI training and inference - I don’t know. Now they’re trying to talk about space-based stuff, too. Not they [meaning] Greg, but they [meaning] the AI hyperscalers are both Google and xAI. And I believe Bezos has to be talking about it, because he’s in the space as well.
We’re talking about training models in space… And I don’t know, that’s beyond my pay grade. To me it doesn’t seem like a very smart idea, but they seem to think it’s going to be better… Maybe you’re closer to the sun, so you get better solar power or something… But anyways, we can talk about that some other time, but…
I’ve got some ideas there.
Do you want to talk about them?
Just briefly… I mean, it would make total sense. One, it’s cold…
Well, it’s a vacuum. You don’t have any air movement.
So getting the heat away from the source would be difficult, I would think.
I guess you have some sort of out into space… I don’t know that part, but definitely, unfettered access to the number one energy source nearest to us…
Yeah, closer to the sun makes sense, but you have to move the data up and down as well.
Well, that’s true. Well, maybe you can –
And maintenance seems tough. Like, you get a bad GPU and it’s like “Dang, we’ve got to send another rocket up.” Anyways…
Robots, I bet. Robots and automated hard drive delivery, or data delivery from up and down… There’s no pipe, I bet. That’s going to be like taking the data literally from something, and down to the Earth. Or just chucking it out. Right? It’ll make it… Right…?
[laughs] “It’ll make it…”
There’s your DNS request there, right? UDP. It’ll make it. If not, who cares? Somebody else will catch it.
Yeah, I don’t know… Smarter people than me say it’s smart, but… I’m a bit skeptical, because it seems like a whole lot of work to get the stuff up there, and doing stuff, and then a whole lot of work to get it back down. And then you have latency… I guess you could do training, but maybe not inference, because – I mean…
…what’s the latency even from Starlink? It’s not great. It’s better than anything else there’s been, but… Anyways. Maybe a topic we can dig into in 2026.
It’s a caching problem, Jerod. Varnish.
Varnish will solve this, too.
That’s right. Varnish in space. Now we’re talking. Alright, Fernando remixed.
Hey, Adam and Jerod. This is Fernando Bevilacqua speaking. It took me years, but 2026 will be the year that I will become a secret agent in the field. I really want to see the world, and I really admire Batman… I want to see everyday criminals in politics face justice, and solve real crises in a world of intrigue. That’s it, guys… Keep on rocking, and thanks for all the plots.
That’s a proper remix right there… I thought it was like Darth Vader entering for a bit there, you know…
Then he got like heroic, secret agent…
Fernando Batman Bevilacqua.
That’s what I’m talking about, yeah.
“That’s what I’m talking about…” [laughs]
That’s what I’m talking about right there, man… That’s a nickname for you.
Oh, yes… From the South. The deep, deep South.
That’s right. Deeper than the South.
Oh, my gosh… That’s cool. I like that one. That was epic.
Up next we have the – my previous tease was somebody will outnumber Andrew Patton… And that’s Jamie Tanna. Jamie - safe to say Jamie likes the pod. Let’s hear from Jamie.
Hey, Adam and Jerod. Happy State of the ‘log again. It’s Jamie Tanna. I think this may be one of the most on-time voicemails I’ve sent you all… But yeah, thanks again for another great year. I ran the numbers, and this year I’ve listened to a whopping 74 episodes, which is about five days of listening time… And I’ve managed to whittle down an amazing year to a shortlist of around 15 episodes… But I’ll try and keep it even shorter than that.
With the strife in the open source ecosystem this year there were some really good discussions about some of the drama and the threats… And some of the really good episodes around this were Feross in Changlog & Friends #111, Mike McQuaid and Justin Searls in Changelog & Friends #113, and a related discussion with Andrew Nesbitt and the excellent work he is doing with ecosystems in Interviews #665.
I’ve also really enjoyed what feels like an increase in levity this year, and especially some of the conversations with your friends like Amal in Friends #86, Dan Moore in Friends #78, Mat Ryer in #75 and #90, and a whole lot of other Friends episodes.
As ever, things like #define and Friendly Feud game shows have been really great, and I’ve really enjoyed them, especially even being in my own this year and participating myself was really cool. I also really enjoyed some of the deep dives you’ll have done into things like different folks’ blog posts… So for instance Friends #81 and the interview you had with Sean in Interviews #666.
As a little bit of an AI skeptic, it has been really interesting digging into some of the interesting cases of AI without a lot of the hype you’ll have done… So in particular things like the interview with David Crawshaw in Interviews #629, Nick Nisi in Friends #88, #102 and #120, and Adam Jacob in Interviews #664, and Stevie Yegge in Friends #96. And also Thorsten Ball in Interviews #648.
Finally, I want to again repeat that it’s been really nice just having a few episodes of just the two of you just chat about stuff; not necessarily even about the tech, just about life, and movies, and stuff… It has been really interesting, and - yeah, a really nice balance between different things. So thanks for a great year, and here’s to another. Thanks!
Cheers, Jamie. That was awesome.
That’s very touching. I mean, just to think about that… He’s not only a listener to that level - five days of listening - but he took the time to go through, to retrospect…
…what mattered, and made a comprehensive, well-articulated list, and then shared it via voice to us… And then it’s gonna get remixed. I mean, that’s –
Yeah. I mean, honestly, Jamie’s list pretty much could have just been my list… Like, he hit on a lot of the ones that I would have done, and he hit on – we were talking about doing eight to ten… He got – I think he got 15 or 16 in there. But to add a little bit – because he was just going through like Friends #111, Interviews #665… To add a little bit of color to those - so he talked about the ones where we do blog posts. So Interviews #666 - that was “Do Repeat Yourself” with Sean Goedecke. That was recently, in which we had him on. And then there was another one, Friends #81, that he mentioned, called “Change My Mind.” And this is where we used Chris Kiehl’s post about development topics that he’s changed his mind on over the last 10 years, as a bit of a launching pad into a discussion that you and I had.
And about things we have and have not changed our minds on over the years… And so that’s a little bit of what Jamie was talking about. Of course, there’s many other references there, but… What are your thoughts, Adam?
Man, I could probably go on, but… I agree, I think even that show in particular, Change My Mind - I recall coming to that episode thinking “Did I prepare well enough for this?” I felt underprepared, because I was thinking “How much have I changed my mind on?” And I think – did we have something happen before that show, that kind of made it a little uniquely recorded?
I thought something happened…
Probably a cancellation of a guest, is my guess.
Maybe… Something – I don’t recall exactly in the moment, but that was a fun one to record. I agree. I like some of the pods we get to do… One of the ones on my list - I guess I can just briefly share it (no one’s said it yet) was “Turn Him Into a Walrus.” That’s on my faves list.
But those are the fun episodes, where you just get together and just get in a groove on whatever it is. And I think Change My Mind, that was a really fun pod.
Probably the best pod that we recorded all year was the Dev Null one, that we didn’t get to ship. We were on fire, man. Remember that?
Oh, that was pure gold, honestly…
[laughs] It might have been like the best 45 minutes we’ve ever done together. That’s why we were so mad afterwards, because… I mean, the show that actually went out - I listened back to it and I was like “Oh, you know, it’s fine…”
You know, we covered a lot of topics, and we had fun, and stuff…
But man, that 45 minutes was pure gold.
At least we get to say that and no one can refute that, ever. [laughs]
No one can challenge the fact, or the opinion [unintelligible 00:40:44.19]
More of a fact than opinion… But okay.
A lot of good episodes here, though. #629 I think was in this list, #666…
David Krashaw… So we had – yes, we had Sean Goedecke, of course, “Agentic Infra Changes Everything”, the most recent Adam Jacob episode, which was really good…
And then, of course, the Steve Yegge episode, I think, probably the most referenced as we go through our list here.
I mean, it’s Steve Yegge…
Adventures in Babysitting Coding Agents - that one was very interesting to a lot of people.
Another stellar title. Like, look at that title.
That was one of my – that’s on my list of best titles, for sure.
Oh, man… That’s a good one.
Anytime you get an ‘80s movie reference into a title… And it’s on point? It’s like, come on.
It couldn’t be a better title. There’s no other way to title that.
It’s like taking candy from a baby, you know?
Which is a really weird figure of speech… Which I would never do. Okay… Jamie Tanna Remix?
Let’s do it.
Hey, Adam and Jerod. Happy State of the ‘log again. It’s Jamie Tanna. It’s been really nice just having a few episodes of just the two of you just chatting about stuff. Not necessarily even about the tech, just about life. Movies… And friends… And game shows… And hype… And deep dive…
Oh, my gosh… You give Breakmaster a reason to go – just to lose his mind a little. Oh, gosh… That’s a throwback. I love that. That’s cool.
Up next, another longtime listener and community member - it’s Jarvis Yang.
Hello, Changelog & Friends. This is Jarvis, checking in once more. Great to see the Changelog.news website has finally landed in the right hands. 2025 has been quite the year, and I was happy to help keep an eye on that vanity domain, and inform Jerod of its availability. And I really appreciate you, Jerod, keeping me updated on all the major news.
Things get hectic, but I always make sure to carve out time for a listen and a look through the newsletter.
My final shout-out is for Minnebar 20. That’s the 20th unconference for the Minnestar organization here in Minnesota. For those who don’t know, Minnebar is the nation’s largest and longest-running technology unconference, first held in 2006. It’s a user-generated, participant-led event, meaning there are no keynotes, and all the sessions are run by the local tech and business communities. Best of all, it’s free. Mark your calendars, Minnebar 20 is on Saturday, May 2nd, 2026.
Also, a very happy early birthday to Jerod’s daughter, whose birthday conveniently aligns with the event weekend. See you all next year.
Conveniently aligns… Do you hear a little bit of a troll in there? We were invited to Minnebar. He thought it’d be a good place for our next live show, and I told him that we have a conflict that week, and so that’s what he’s referring to. [laughs]
But for those who don’t know Jarvis, he calls in every year and he gives us shout outs, and then he always gives something else a shout out, most of the time some Minnesota-based organization… Such as Minibar, which looks like a really cool event, actually. 20 years to throw an unconference. That’s pretty impressive.
Minnebar. M-I-N-N-E bar. Like Minnesota, I think…
Oh, yeah. That makes sense.
Okay, Minnesota bar, Minnebar.
Yeah, exactly. Minnebar. May 2nd.
Bar camps are still a thing? Is this really –
They must be, at least in Minnesota. I know that in Nebraska, the Omaha bar camp I think has gone by the wayside. I think someone tried to bring it back… We had it going for five, six, seven years, maybe 10 years, and then eventually it stopped, and then someone tried to bring it back, and I’m not sure if it’s still going… But I don’t hear much about bar camps anymore.
I miss that idea, you know?
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